coming soon: 2pc rotors - Page 2
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Thread: coming soon: 2pc rotors

  1. #11
    I Need A Vacation kev604's Avatar
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    Okay curious now so based on that than if your gaining 6HP ON THE DRIVE WHEELS by going to lightweight rotors (saving roughly 4lbs total to the front wheels) than what is your recovered HP if you drop 28lbs to THE DRIVE WHEELS by going to lightweight rims (ie. 29lbs-15lbs per wheel)?

    Quote Originally Posted by turkeyfeast123 View Post
    ^I think these kids need a little pow-wow to work out their differences lol

    Interesting concept again, looking at rotational energy, back to the discussion of lightweight pulleys! The Evo also makes more HP and TQ than the Si, I mean were talking about a difference of over 100 HP and TQ difference, so maybe the amount of lightweight reduction, in various areas of course, will yield different results.

    For example, the Si 2012 was 200HP, theoretically, 200HP is the max amount of HP that the motor can function at with absolutely no restrictions, so if the 20% was applied in the loss/restrictions, then only 40HP is left to make up...however, to what extend and how close you can come to the original 200HP is subjective.

    For the Evo, the max HP that dyno made was right around 320, so, adding 20% would bring the max HP for the Evo (at crank) is up to 384HP (320 X .20 = 64, 64 + 320 = 384), so you have now 64 HP to make up, versus 40HP on the Si, (37.5% more), you have a much larger window to make up that HP/TQ than the Si.

    If we look at the claim of 10HP gain with the new rotors, you have to take that from the 64HP, which is a gain of 15% (10/64 = 15.62%), or you could use the language of "recover" versus "gain", The light weight rotors "recovered" 10HP that was originally lost.

    So, now you use the 15% as a basis for measure for what could be on the loss of the 40HP that the Si goes through, which takes the theoretical gain to 6HP (40 X .15), so with the lightweight rotors, you could anticipate a "recovered" 6HP from the original loss

    Everything is always going to be proportionate to the original HP and TQ numbers of each engine at crank. Hope this makes sense.
    Last edited by kev604; 06-24-2017 at 12:46 PM.
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  3. #12
    Platinum Member team3d's Avatar
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    skip to 2:50
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  4. #13
    Top Dawg!! Hella JDM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by team3d View Post
    going yo have it test fit on my r18 in 10 days (my r18 uses stock 300mm stock si brake)

    once the sample fit, we will place an order and gb will be up within 3 weeks
    Word!
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  6. #14
    I Need A Vacation kev604's Avatar
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    I think we all know your really good at Googling YouTube videos but doesn't answer my question which seems to be a very valid one and I'm sure other members on the forum are curious to the answer.

    So here we go............. Curious now so based on what your saying if your gaining 6HP ON THE DRIVE WHEELS by going to lightweight rotors (saving roughly 4lbs total to the front wheels) than what is your recovered HP if you drop 28lbs to THE DRIVE WHEELS by going to lightweight rims (ie. 29lbs-15lbs per wheel)?

    Quote Originally Posted by team3d View Post
    skip to 2:50
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  7. #15
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    Kev604 I think its a tough question to answer with the data presented in this so far.

    I think we'd have to do a few equations first. The problem also lies within the dyno results as they only show the before and after with the lightened rotors vs the wheels. Yes, I know it doesn't per say matter, but it does.

    You saw the simple caluations that I did to show the same gain. This is also assuming that there arent any other variables playing a role. Honestly, we'd have to probably just do the dyno test with stock vs lightened wheels.

    The prinicpal will always be the same, lighter parts = less energy to move those parts, thats why Lotus is an incredible car, basically because it weighs next to nothing.

    I think also we are confusing two topics: recovered HP or TQ from lightened wheels vs. Actual performance (which can be a number of things other than the dyno numbers).

    Like I said in my last post, the Si can only make 200HP stock, that's it. No increase whatsoever will ever happen no matter if you used the engine on a car that weighed 200lbs. 200HP will always stay 200HP.

    However, back to Lotus, that 200HP in a lighter car is gonna be far quicker than in a heavier car, common sense. The reduction of weight can practically only go so far. Beyond a carbon fiber body and wheels the SI is limited, like any other car in its potential power or recovered power.

    The Si will only get to 200HP for the 2012 model, thats it. No matter how much you take off, it will only go up to 200HP. I dont know the specific answer to your question because the whole concept I wrote down was theoretical. Plus, its an interesting point in terms of a potential false power read that the lightened rotors or in your interest, wheels, would throw off the dyno reading. (Dyno is also flawed since its like the car driving on a treadmill vs actual pavement)

    It simply could be argued that any weight reduction at all would equate to more recovered HP. However, simply taking out your back seat vs lightened wheels/rotors are two very different things because the back seat, although heavy, is not directly tied into the engine, like other things: pulleys, flywheel, axels, rotors, wheels, cam gears etc. Those are the direct causes of resistance to the engine's rotational energy output.

    Unlike the back seat which is sationary, and has no direct connection, the other pieces do. And when resistance goes down, were only staying on rotational force here, there is a greater chance of recovered HP.

    Sorry for the tangent, best way I could explain myself.
    Last edited by turkeyfeast123; 06-24-2017 at 11:08 PM.
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  8. #16
    Platinum Member team3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev604 View Post
    I think we all know your really good at Googling YouTube videos but doesn't answer my question which seems to be a very valid one and I'm sure other members on the forum are curious to the answer.

    So here we go............. Curious now so based on what your saying if your gaining 6HP ON THE DRIVE WHEELS by going to lightweight rotors (saving roughly 4lbs total to the front wheels) than what is your recovered HP if you drop 28lbs to THE DRIVE WHEELS by going to lightweight rims (ie. 29lbs-15lbs per wheel)?
    1st of all, read.. no one claims how much hp is going to free up for this rotors set up, all i post was the weight difference & the tests other people have dyno, so i am just showing forum members/readers that are not familiar with the effect on weight reduction on inertia/rotational weights.

    so, i really don't understand where did you get a 6hp from ? here, let me show you the post again...

    "the rule of thumb for fwd drivetrain loss is 20%, so a 200hp car will be 160whp on a chassis dyno, that 40hp drivetrain loss can be recover some from light weight wheels, tires, rotors, clutch, axles... if you can recover 20%, that is a good 8whp gain without adding any load into your engine."

    it's IF YOU CAN RECOVER 20%, a 40hp drivetrain loss, if you can recover 20% of that 40hp, that is 8hp...

    if there are tons of video exist that can help further explain how inertia/rotational weights works (or anything for that matter), there is no reason for anyone to do another video for the same topic.
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  9. #17
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    Ok kids time to bring back 8th grade math!

    (Warning, this makes NO sense)

    1. Original HP = 327
    2. After rotor HP = 339
    3. Difference = 12
    4. Percentage increase = 5%, how? (12/327)
    5. Total weight difference = 9.32lbs (all 4 rotors)
    6. Reduction of 9.32lbs = 5% recovered HP or 12HP
    7. Kev's 56lbs weight reduction hypothetical
    8. (9.32lb = 5%) = (56/X)
    9. X = 30%
    10. 30% = how much HP, if 5% = 12, then 30% = 72HP
    11. 72 + 327 = 399HP (seems too high)
    12. Change correlation and try again
    13. Use team3d's rule of thumb (20% drive train loss)
    14. Original HP = 327, 20% of 327 is 65.4 of assumed lossed HP, taking to 392.4 HP at crank (assumed)
    15. 12 HP difference to 65.4 HP of assumed loss is 18.34%
    16. Recaluate using different correlation
    17. (9.32lbs/18.34%) = (56lbs/X)
    18. X = 110.07% (seems wrong, cant have over 100% of recovered HP)
    19. Just for fun, see what 110.07% of recovered HP would be
    20. 65.4 X 110.07 = 7,198.57
    21. 7,198.57/100 = 71.98 HP
    22. Realize 71.98 is almost 72, reference step number 10 and 11, scratch head, look at ceiling, ponder
    23. Conclude: we don't have enough info or correlating weight loss to HP or TQ gain is not a safe correlation

    See...told you it was all theoretical!

  10. #18
    Platinum Member team3d's Avatar
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    you forget civic is 2wd, you can only use 2 wheels for drive train loss, you can't add 4, so the total weight reduction for freeing up rotational weight is 14.8lbs.

    also, kev604 is 2013, not 14-15, it's 23lbs stock wheel


    until a stock fb6 with stock wheels dyno & then dyno with light weight wheels, we will not know how much power a certain rotational weight (#) will free up the power
    Last edited by team3d; 06-25-2017 at 12:55 AM.

  11. #19
    One Bad Mama Jama!!! ysutarko's Avatar
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    options with Slotted Rotors?

  12. #20
    Platinum Member team3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ysutarko View Post
    options with Slotted Rotors?
    only blank rotors

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