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Longevity of a vehicle usually comes down to how well the owner/driver maintains the vehicle. Just because you drive a Japanese car doesn't mean you can drive 100k miles with no maintenance work and expect it to last another 100k miles.

IMO, as long as you take care of the car, it will last a long time.

My friends Buick Grand National, unmodified, has 300k miles and still runs like a new car.

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An unmodified GN is nearly a unicorn. The stock turbo has gone 300k? I am a huge fan of the Buick Grand National and my dream car would be an 87 GNX. Those 3.8 liter engines will easily get to 300k with proper care. It is the GM electronics, transmissions etc. that definitely will NOT. He must also be on his 3rd CPU too eh? :)
 

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An unmodified GN is nearly a unicorn. The stock turbo has gone 300k? I am a huge fan of the Buick Grand National and my dream car would be an 87 GNX. Those 3.8 liter engines will easily get to 300k with proper care. It is the GM electronics, transmissions etc. that definitely will NOT. He must also be on his 3rd CPU too eh? :)
The manager at my favorite body shop has a nearly stock GN. I need to take some pictures. He has driven it to work, parks in the garage/showroom and then gives it a spirited ride home for many years. Never sees rain and is kept fresh by daily driving. He appreciates it for what it is/was and has other hot rods at his disposal. He does like to talk about all the different stage options but has never done it. So, much, potential, just....sitting there....If it didn't have so many miles you would think it was a museum piece.t


I like GM but hate Delphi electronics. Crappy systems with sub-system power block flaws and if ever taken apart do not connect again without shorting.

I will admit to just being car crazy as almost everyone has something I like about them. Went to the Mopar museum at Chrysler headquarters with two of my kids and we walked the years of Chrysler. I explained the gaps in quality, Corythian leather, the Lee Iacoca years, the K-series, the Mitsubishi joint adventure and falling out, but still so many cool cars from start to finish. If they could just stick with something instead of being steered to chiit by share holders.
 

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Then if you went 5.4 Tricon then you got a 3 piece porcelin spark plug that should come with the extracting tool as the plugs will crack when you go to change them regardless of anti-sieze.
Could this possibly explain why my dad's 5.4 keeps blowing out spark plugs? It's happened twice, now, where the spark plug has blown clear out the socket...
 

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^^That is a really good point actually, and one I get tired of arguing with when it comes to talking to other people about cars (I work at a car dealership). So many people flock immediately to used Hondas and Toyotas on the lot that they always command a premium, yet when it comes to something like an older Hyundai Elantra or Kia Spectra, you can't give those cars away. Funny thing though, everyone I've seen that trades their old Elantra in (just referring to a model I'm familiar with) to "upgrade" to a Honda, usually has nothing bad to say about their car but are still afraid of it because it's Korean. Even cars I've seen turn 250,000 miles and people are saying crap like "I can't believe it made it this far for being Korean." I just want to whack them over the head with a board and ask "Did you ever consider the fact it might just be a good car?" I've "only" owned two Hyundais, but both had over 300,000 on the odometer when I received them (for free) and both had the original drivetrain (manual). Cars felt tired, but they had in spec compression and never let me down. Can't fault them in the least bit.

Also, then referring to models of different cars, I've had some very good luck with my Mitsubishis (used to be a huge DSM fan), but not so much with Nissan (Altima and Maxima, both with transmission issues).


Really, it just comes down to the fact that all cars are machines that are built and designed by humans. We screw up all the time, and it shows in our products so we'd just better get used to the fact that nothing we own is going to last forever.
I think this has a lot to do with the outward appearance (the Tempo theory, posted earlier... I owned one, and it WAS a total heap of shit). The early Hyundais and Kias were ugly and super basic. People treated them like crap because they were built with cheap materials. I don't think I've ever seen a used one without paint missing or a plethora of dents.

That being said, they were purpose-built. They were marketed to people that want a cheap car to get from point A to point B, nothing more, nothing less. 100k warranty, average fuel economy, simple design. You can't make money on a 100k warranty if you're always having to do warranty work. Thank about that.
 

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Could this possibly explain why my dad's 5.4 keeps blowing out spark plugs? It's happened twice, now, where the spark plug has blown clear out the socket...
The reason for that is because the triton v8's depending on the year I think had a problem with blowing out spark plugs and there is actually a kit that is specifically designed for those engines that does not involve helicoils(it's a cast sleeve insert that fixes the blown out spark plug) I had my neon fixed with the same kit.
 

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The reason for that is because the triton v8's depending on the year I think had a problem with blowing out spark plugs and there is actually a kit that is specifically designed for those engines that does not involve helicoils(it's a cast sleeve insert that fixes the blown out spark plug) I had my neon fixed with the same kit.
Good to know! I'll have him look into that. Thank you. :)
 

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in my opinion japanese cars are the most reliable cars on the market

and germans cars imo are the worst.. had bad experience with audi, mini and bmw..

Japanese FTW!
 

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^^Just wait until Chinese cars our shores...mwahaha.

And yes I've owned one, a Lifan 320...just...yeah.
China is an intersting source. So many companies duplicating the 'real' thing after you have paid for a source of say paperclips that by the time you get the actual product, they have subcontracted it multiple times and the paperclips dissolve in your fingers and the contacts blame all the suppliers.

Kind of like Detroit where 3rd tier owners are ready to screw unsuspecting buyers on a whim to make a dollar. The thought process is dog eat dog.

Merry Christmas!
 

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I think this has a lot to do with the outward appearance (the Tempo theory, posted earlier... I owned one, and it WAS a total heap of shit). The early Hyundais and Kias were ugly and super basic. People treated them like crap because they were built with cheap materials. I don't think I've ever seen a used one without paint missing or a plethora of dents.

That being said, they were purpose-built. They were marketed to people that want a cheap car to get from point A to point B, nothing more, nothing less. 100k warranty, average fuel economy, simple design. You can't make money on a 100k warranty if you're always having to do warranty work. Thank about that.
Isnt a Civic a purpose built car made to get from point A to point B? It's cheap but isn't a POS. An SI just has a different interior, a little more power and a different suspension. It's cheap but serves a market niche that some believe mimics a "sports car". Oh boy that will step on some toes!!! ;)
 

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Isnt a Civic a purpose built car made to get from point A to point B? It's cheap but isn't a POS. An SI just has a different interior, a little more power and a different suspension. It's cheap but serves a market niche that some believe mimics a "sports car". Oh boy that will step on some toes!!! ;)
Si is "sport injected." Hopefully nobody thinks they're in a purpose built sports car as clearly it's not. Same with the wrx or lancer evolution. All economy cars on steroids. With that said, I love my Si for the mix of comfort, fuel economy, and sportiness it has. A very good balance.

Also, Merry Christmas everyone! I hope you all have a wonderful day with loved ones.
 

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Lot's of manufacturers have problems. It is how they deal with it. Looking at you GM 2500 H.D. pump rub transfer case POS's.

Some just are dumb from the get go. Ford's 4.6l spark plugs require a threadsert to fix the 3-4 aluminum threads that came stock. Then if you went 5.4 Tricon then you got a 3 piece porcelin spark plug that should come with the extracting tool as the plugs will crack when you go to change them regardless of anti-sieze.

effBee6fromthe209, you could probably tell us about a certain dowel pin on the 12V's right?
The gap has narrowed, and the complication and globalization of automobiles have made the Japanese models less reliable than previously. Toyotas of the 80's ad 90's used to be bullet proof, but they were dirt simple. I swear they had the same buttons in a 1985 Camry as they had in a 2000 Camry. Nothing wrong with that. They work and keep on working. But with fancy drive-by-wire systems, CVTs, Navigation, satellite, bluetooth, cameras, keyless start, remote start, dual/panoramic sunroofs, computer-controlled AWD systems, 300+ horsepower, Hybrid-electric systems, etc, reliability will change, particularly beyond the 10 year age range.

Japanese automakers also used to sell a limited array of vehicles, which allowed them to focus on quality and design of those vehicles only... while GM, Ford and Chrysler focused on covering the gambit from super compact econoboxes up to heavy duty trucks to luxury cars! Now Toyota is following this philosophy, they sell 5 different SUVs, 2 pick-up trucks, 6+ sedans (if you include Scion), and a full luxury line (Lexus). You complicate your product offering, you open the door for more issues.... you can't have it both ways.

I'm hopeful that this closed gap will benefit me, since we just bought a Kia Sorento. I wouldn't have owned a Kia 10 years ago, but they seem to be on par with other models of late, and they offer a lot more features for the same or less money (buying a used Kia is a particularly good bargain).

How do the Korean makers fall into this picture? Our Kia was made in Georgia, as well.
 

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The reason for that is because the triton v8's depending on the year I think had a problem with blowing out spark plugs and there is actually a kit that is specifically designed for those engines that does not involve helicoils(it's a cast sleeve insert that fixes the blown out spark plug) I had my neon fixed with the same kit.
I missed this post. The aluminum head Fords were/are notorious for blowing spark plugs. That can happen from loose plugs, high HP, or just Ford. Threadserts are the kits used to fix them. The tool costs like $450. If you join the forums there arre guys who will do the rent-a-tool program with you where you use paypal and buy the tool from them, they send it to you, then you return it less shipping and $50.

I sure as hell wouldn't buy a Ford truck (love the trucks great works of machine but crappy plugs) without having the owner or better yet shop remove and replace the plugs for me before I bought it. You may find that you bought a used Ford that has the plugs JB welded into the aluminum head.

The Tricons weren't as bad but the [3] piece plugs have a tendency to break apart when you try and remove them. The porcelin last portion gets stuck down into the cylider and they actually have an adhesive extractor tool to remove the last bit.

I see Ford was advertising a $11,000 off of MSRP. Makes me wonder what the cost of a basic F-150 is now.
 

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A buck-three-eighty?
 

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A buck-three-eighty?
I think if I were playing the price is right I would go with the three then say the eight then at least three zeros

Can't belive we spend so much on disposable cars with easy credit vs. mortgages with all sorts of stipulations like %-age money down.
 
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