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Great article.
I love my 12 Si after upgrading the sways, it was all nearly there.

I agree whole heartedly; I don't need my car to be a traveling "infotainment" center, I don't care about a few squeaks, I don't care if the dash looks cheap as long as it's durable and functional. Some call it noise I call it communication. Some call it edgey I call it responsive. Please Honda make cars for people who love cars, not for people who want to drive their iphone.

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
This article relates as well. This is the type of person machinery like an Si should be made for, it's an Si, you can do it Honda, you have an LX, EX, and EX-L, for those who'd rather.

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This article relates as well. This is the type of person machinery like an Si should be made for, it's an Si, you can do it Honda, you have an LX, EX, and EX-L, for those who'd rather.

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I'd love to see them break the Si into two categories. Have a premium version of the Si for those that want luxury while still retaining most of the performance aspects of the car, and have a racing/track spec version of the Si for the pure enthusiasts. The racing version wouldn't have as many features, but it would be geared toward pure performance. I like the bells and whistles of my Si, but I would probably give up most of them for more focus on performance.

Hyundai does something very similar with the Genesis Coupe.
 

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Agreed. Hondas now are just kind of blah to me. I haven't liked the styling of Hondas since the late '90s. The only reason why I bought the '12 Civic Si coupe was because I wanted one and I had nothing else to do with $24000. I don't like the styling, I don't like the curves, and I don't like how big the once sub-compact Civic has become. I swear my '91 Accord SE sedan was smaller than the Civic is now. But, I'm brand-loyal and will buy Hondas no matter how generic they look.

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I really don't think it would be too much to ask to offer all the tech junk as a package like many other manufacturers do. Unfortunately, those of us who don't drive iPhones is the minority. What the consumer wants is an iPhone on wheels. They don't care about performance, cornering or quality- they are ready to replace things they own every few years in order to have the latest and greatest. A car is not what it used to be much like all the other toys in life. Everything is disposable and the priority is to have the newest, not the best, not something with soul or character, simply the newest with the most bells and whistles.

All I want is a damn ek hatch with modern safety and engine... is that really too much to ask?
 

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I'd love to see them break the Si into two categories. Have a premium version of the Si for those that want luxury while still retaining most of the performance aspects of the car, and have a racing/track spec version of the Si for the pure enthusiasts. The racing version wouldn't have as many features, but it would be geared toward pure performance. I like the bells and whistles of my Si, but I would probably give up most of them for more focus on performance.

Hyundai does something very similar with the Genesis Coupe.
I am so in this camp ideologically it's not even funny.

I, too, would prefer a performance car without all the little electronic candy that is currently offered. Give me an old-fashioned small, light, high hp-to-weight-ratioed funbox every time.

I might miss the imid a little, as I've discovered how nice it is to just leave the ipod plugged in and have it come on, fully charged, like my own private little radio station.

But a car like the original CRX would be perfect. Hell, that actual car would be perfect, inside and out.
 

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What I would prefer is where I see the future of cars going. You say a technology package option - I say completely swappable tech package. I would rather have a built in nice touch screen that I could plug my phone's video out into. That way GPS, music, youtube, texts, pandora, etc could all run off your phone. No outdated circuitry installed in your car (think how had the current system will look in 10 years).

To that end put an easy to swap out screen with a set size where you can just upgrade it if it breaks or to improve the resolution. Then you have a car with pretty much none of the tech unless you opt for the screen (otherwise a neat fake carbon fiber panel covers it ;) and then you will always have new technology as you upgrade your phone. If you don't want to power it with a phone (using an apple or android app) I am sure they can set up a swappable strawberry Pi for $30
 

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I'm big on technology, and I would like nicer dashboard plastics and all black interior (2013), but I also want performance. IMO, "Honda, give me all of it". Don't strip down what's already there, but performance-wise, give us the goodies please.The only thing I really care about iMID for is that it has sleek USB iPod integration, display, and menus. Besides that it is pretty much pointless. I keep my 120GB iPod Classic in my car with over 8000 songs, so this is important to me.
 

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what ever happen to the days when you could go into a stealership and order a 69 camaro with rollup windows....a/c delete....radio delete....o yea and opt for the 4:11 rear end.....muncie 4spd.....and big block 427 and be a terror on the strip(for the time anyways)....now go the stealership and order an Si delete all wieght you want but even have options for N/A or a turbo from the factory.......Honda does alot with racing and if they wanted to have enough factory performance items that you wouldnt need the aftermarket......and thats one of the things i miss....my friends Cobalt SS has 430hp(i know its no 1000hp monster but in a car like that it's plenty) and its all dealer add-on and factory parts and all under new car warranty! If Honda has something like it please correct me....but the Si is a great platform for this kinda thing.....and having the k24 bottom end would be nasty on a track, with alot torque and having that torque lower in the power band! Dispite feeling squishy the Si is pretty fast for what it is on a track....just wish there was more factory support for performance.....
 

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They do have a premium version with all the extra "premium" accessories that defy what has been written into the SI legacy its been up for sale for awhile it even comes as a hybrid "premium" si
Or more like the SI turned gay and went to get a gender transplant its called the Acura ILx basically a fabulous version of the SI
No pun inteded however newcomers to the SI should read up on the SI heritage as its always been the little brother to the type Rs
Its a great priced sports compact,
Not exactly a fancy Nancy leather trimmed luxury ride.its louder,stiffer,not exactly mpg oriented,and so on and so fourth Honda has made cutbacks im sure but they've done it without holding an open palm to the US govt they have managed to still industry innovators,and Honda is still placed as a bench mark amongst testing other vehicles,now Honda isn't always going to be on top but in my book Honda is world company hard to beat let me know when ford or Audi or Subaru or any other company can take you from LA to Singapore,now your lawn to perfection,power your house when the powers out,have a robot that can break dance,be a sole supplier of race engines making over 500hp per liter,Honda was the first company to break into the over 100 hp per liter ,and although the SI engine we have today is fairly "weak" to SI grassroots its handling quite well to simple performance mods,which not too many companies can achieve.

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Price Range. For 20-25k you are not going to get something fantastic when you add in all the safety standards/requirements. There are cars like the Lotus that give you bare bones performance. There are cars like Mercedes/bmw that give you luxury performance. There are cars like the WRX where you certainly feel 90% of the price of the car goes into the drive train and 10% goes towards amenities - maybe this is the car you were looking for?

The reason I like the Si is because it is a mix of both - it is comfortable and it is fun to drive, at a very reasonable price. I would rather have 6 kinds of airbags, a nice stereo, and a quiet enough interior so you don't have to shout to be heard from the back seat. This appears to be the majority of their customers. I like the saying "it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow".

But if you want a bare bones car, and you don't want to spend $50k for an Elise.. And you want a Honda... Why not get one a few years old and gut it/part it out? Sure people will always want improvements - it is what keeps us moving forward but I personally the only things I would do are update the current technology so it doesn't look so dated and offer a higher performance engine (or turbo) when all the competitors are doing similar.
 

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I really don't think it would be too much to ask to offer all the tech junk as a package like many other manufacturers do. Unfortunately, those of us who don't drive iPhones is the minority. What the consumer wants is an iPhone on wheels. They don't care about performance, cornering or quality- they are ready to replace things they own every few years in order to have the latest and greatest. A car is not what it used to be much like all the other toys in life. Everything is disposable and the priority is to have the newest, not the best, not something with soul or character, simply the newest with the most bells and whistles.

All I want is a damn ek hatch with modern safety and engine... is that really too much to ask?
Now a modern version of the ek9 wouldn't be bad if we can shoehorn k20s ,imagine if Honda really wanted to bring it back r spec style that would be interesting.

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Price Range. For 20-25k you are not going to get something fantastic when you add in all the safety standards/requirements. There are cars like the Lotus that give you bare bones performance. There are cars like Mercedes/bmw that give you luxury performance. There are cars like the WRX where you certainly feel 90% of the price of the car goes into the drive train and 10% goes towards amenities - maybe this is the car you were looking for?

The reason I like the Si is because it is a mix of both - it is comfortable and it is fun to drive, at a very reasonable price. I would rather have 6 kinds of airbags, a nice stereo, and a quiet enough interior so you don't have to shout to be heard from the back seat. This appears to be the majority of their customers. I like the saying "it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow".

But if you want a bare bones car, and you don't want to spend $50k for an Elise.. And you want a Honda... Why not get one a few years old and gut it/part it out? Sure people will always want improvements - it is what keeps us moving forward but I personally the only things I would do are update the current technology so it doesn't look so dated and offer a higher performance engine (or turbo) when all the competitors are doing similar.
I agree however as the turbo option goes chances are it may not happen the old citi and rdx were exceptions,keep in mind a turbo can reduce engine life,especially if you get fanboys buying say a new si with turbo and they cap the map sensor to allow the turbo to spool more and blow the engine before warranty is up? Nightmares for Honda profitability zero,build a strong high cr engine you can beat on here and there and still be able to go over 200k miles in engine life? Slim to none,I've yet to see any competitor build a strong NA sport compact for under 25k going to be hard to beat Honda set the standard there.

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Here's a comment I originally wrote and posted on Motor Trend's web site regarding the 9th Civic Si:

I bought a 2012 Si coupe (w/o navigation) in October, 2012. I really like it. A few thoughts:

The engine sounds great! I like the exterior, but the nose almost looks like taut fabric had been stretched over a metal frame underneath. I have mixed feelings about this look. I like the use of plastic on the dash and do not miss having a foam dash. I know the lack of a foam dashboard has been one of the primary complaints people have about the 2012 Civic but I completely disagree with this complaint. I find the plastic to be high in quality and it has a pretty texture on it.

The shifter and clutch are the best I've used. I love the look and feel of the stick shift. The ball head reminds me of a mini baseball. Great use of leather and red stitching here. The shift action is superb, as is the clutch action. Wow.

The steering and suspension are nicely taught, but I wouldn't mind an even firmer suspension and even tighter steering.

Honda made the i-MID as useful as they could have made it, but personally I would have left the i-MID out entirely. I don't like the look of large LCD panels on a dash (which is one reason I did not get the navigation option.) The i-MID makes the top part of the dash (the "banana") too large. The i-MID is a little distracting when driving. You can turn it off so the screen is mostly black. Removing the i-MID would make the car simpler, and simplicity is a good thing! I think Honda must feel that it has to add this sort of technology to the car ... but I think Honda would be better off not doing it.

I like the digital speedometer. I like how the speedometer digits aren't pixel-based instead use a simpler LCD screen that reminds me of some early digital watches (in a good way!) I also like how the digits use "monospaced fonts", so to speak. By this I mean the digits don't shift left and right when the rightmost digit changes from a slim "1" to a thicker "8" for example, if you know what I mean. It would have been a mistake had Honda used a high-resolution LCD panel and smooth, PostScript fonts for the digital speedo digits. I'd prefer a red backlight here instead of white.

I like the placement of the digital fuel gauge. The VTEC lights at left are interesting, but perhaps unnecessary. I'd like to keep a car as simple as possible, design wise.

The tach is good, but the 3-D-looking red "curved tube" art on the tach looks a bit wacky.

Steering wheel: I like the steering wheel a lot. The wheel is small and sporty and easy to grip. I like the leather wrap and red stitching. But the wheel is too complicated. If I could change it I'd remove the phone buttons, i-MID controls (Make it simpler, cleaner!) Keep the cruise control buttons, but remove the backlighting off those buttons as the backlight contributes to a "star field" like effect when driving at night (that is, the lights on the steering wheel, the radio, the climate system, and elsewhere look like stars at night a little ... I don't like it. The lights are too widely-spaced and too numerous.)

The stereo has traditional controls which I like, but the buttons are too widely-spaced, giving a "star field" look to it at night. I like the backlighting here, but would prefer a more compact arrangement of buttons as well as the addition of a small black-and-white LCD screen (to replace removal of the i-MID for stereo use.) I'd prefer that all backlights be red instead of white. The power button is placed where one might accidentally press it while trying to press one of the radio frequency pre-set buttons. My 2002 Civic came with a tape deck, so I am very pleased to see that a CD player is standard on the 2012 model and there is no tape deck. The USB memory stick connection in the glove box is one of my favorite touches on the 2012 Civic Si. I love being able to play MP3's using just a little memory stick. Great job Honda! I was a little confused about the way the MP3 song order is determined, however. I initially thought it would be alphabetical by file name, but later learned order was determined by the order in which the MP3s are added to the memory stick. The audio quality from the Civic's stereo system is first-rate.

The climate controls are perfect. Easy to use and compactly arranged. Don't change a thing. The air vent controls are nicely damped and stay where you put them. (The vents on my 2002 Civic were looser and tended to flop around. Glad to see Honda fixed this quirk.)

I like the metal foot pedals.

The controls for the turn signal and wipers are fine.

The door handle and controls are perfect. (The door lock button matches the rest of the car's design, unlike the door lock on my 2002 Civic, which looked like an afterthought.)

The overall lines and look of the dash is excellent.

The small tweeter speakers in the A pillars look a little weird. Perhaps a shape other than a circle would look better? Just keep the "pillar" look of the A-pillar, and cover part of the pillar with a plastic speaker mesh, with the speaker hidden inside, eh?

Seats: I love the "spidery" fabric on the seats. Black cloth with red stitching ... love it. I'm 5'10" tall and I find my hair sometimes touches the roof. A shorter seat or a thinner roof would be nice here. Does the sunroof add to the thickness of the roof? I like the seat a lot. I like the size of the seat and the firm cushions. The manual controls are also great. I prefer manual seat controls to power seat controls. Back seats: My head hits the roof when I tried sitting in the back. Fortunately, I never have any reason to sit back there, and I rarely have passengers sit there, either. Shorter people and kids will fit fine. I think Honda made a good choice by doing this, however, since the lower roof means the car keeps the low roofline and thus its handsome, sporty exterior look.

Safety: Wow. Honda has done a first-rate job here. SIX airbags and ABS and VSA. Love it. I feel much safer in this Civic than I did in my 2002 Civic. I especially like the side-impact airbags. The VSA feature works fantastically: I've driven miles on completely snowy and icy streets in Montana and it is clear VSA improves the way the engine can deliver power to the wheels when driving 0 to 30 miles per hour or so. I can feel the car automatically retarding the throttle in such a way that the car handles and accelerates much better than with VSA off.

Phone interface: This works very well, but I feel it encourages bad habits. Using a phone or texting while driving causes drivers to become distracted and become a menace to themselves and other motorists. However, if you're the type of driver who is going to use a phone, this strikes me as as safe a way as it can be done.
 

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They do have a premium version with all the extra "premium" accessories that defy what has been written into the SI legacy its been up for sale for awhile it even comes as a hybrid "premium" si
Or more like the SI turned gay and went to get a gender transplant its called the Acura ILx basically a fabulous version of the SI
No pun inteded however newcomers to the SI should read up on the SI heritage as its always been the little brother to the type Rs
Its a great priced sports compact,
Not exactly a fancy Nancy leather trimmed luxury ride.its louder,stiffer,not exactly mpg oriented,and so on and so fourth Honda has made cutbacks im sure but they've done it without holding an open palm to the US govt they have managed to still industry innovators,and Honda is still placed as a bench mark amongst testing other vehicles,now Honda isn't always going to be on top but in my book Honda is world company hard to beat let me know when ford or Audi or Subaru or any other company can take you from LA to Singapore,now your lawn to perfection,power your house when the powers out,have a robot that can break dance,be a sole supplier of race engines making over 500hp per liter,Honda was the first company to break into the over 100 hp per liter ,and although the SI engine we have today is fairly "weak" to SI grassroots its handling quite well to simple performance mods,which not too many companies can achieve.

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Now i don't think the Si engine is weak by any standards.......i've driven my buddies 2000 Si and another buddies 07 Si and i will say this K24 is great.....yes when the revs go 8000(i should say 7800 cause thats where the K20 makes the most power stock and theres no need to go past that) its fun and good.....but when talking track day....the more torque you have and a better power band = faster accel(also has to do with HP and wieght.....which our cars are great in that catagory).....which i've felt Honda has lacked a good power band for years and finally corrected with this Si. I love the K24.....more torque at a lower RPM means more time in the gas and less time shifting......and please dont get me wrong....i love that little 2000 Si......i mean when you drive it on the track you can really feel the car....i just like my K24 Si....even with the cast headers
 

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The Honda Gear looks pretty cool ... 2013 Honda Gear Concept - Top Speed

Personally I don't care that much about horsepower. 201 in the Si is more than I'd prefer actually, since the more horsepower a car has, the worse its fuel economy tends to be, and I'd rather have high fuel economy.

But I *do* want a peppy, spirited engine. And a sporty suspension and sporty steering. The 9th-gen non-Si Civics fall short when it comes to the suspension and steering in my opinion. My 7th gen LX coupe had the non-Si 9th gen Civics beat when it comes to suspension and steering. (At least when it comes to how the car feels ... the 9th non-Si's might have better numbers on a skidpad or slalom, but it didn't FEEL like it when I handled the 9th non-Si.)

I've not driven a Fit but the reviews praise its handling. I assume the Fit handle better than the non-Si 9th Civic. But the Fit's got too many doors and it's lacking a little in aesthetics both inside and out.

The 9th feels larger than the 7th gen civic, but I looked the dimensions up on Wikipedia and the two cars are extremely close in dimensions. I was surprised.

The 9th Si is a better car than the 7th LX coupe on balance. So I'd have to say Honda *is* improving.
 

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Now i don't think the Si engine is weak by any standards.......i've driven my buddies 2000 Si and another buddies 07 Si and i will say this K24 is great.....yes when the revs go 8000(i should say 7800 cause thats where the K20 makes the most power stock and theres no need to go past that) its fun and good.....but when talking track day....the more torque you have and a better power band = faster accel(also has to do with HP and wieght.....which our cars are great in that catagory).....which i've felt Honda has lacked a good power band for years and finally corrected with this Si. I love the K24.....more torque at a lower RPM means more time in the gas and less time shifting......and please dont get me wrong....i love that little 2000 Si......i mean when you drive it on the track you can really feel the car....i just like my K24 Si....even with the cast headers
I meant it as weak because its a 2.4 meaning is just about all SI gens the engine size was fairly close we should be at a minimum of 220 the 8th sticks to the tradition,at a hair under 100hp a liter ,ours falls short as the og ep k20 did although fun to drive kinda bland in spec of the power to liter ratio not in anyway saying our z7 sucks but it doesn't hold its own as the SI concept per tradition.
However I did buy my sedan SI specifically for the reason it makes its power way sooner and has we bit more torque and I wished mugen had made a varient to the 9thgencivic but they didn't so oh well.no mugen rr for our gen ,yet anyways.
As a commuter the SI is hard to beat in my particular Commute
No hybrid can hang with me as part of my Commute,I may use premium fuel but at 37 mpg no hybrid in the world gets that with over 1000 lbs of cargo,that equals 4 people and our bags and lunches.so if I wanted to I could go hit up Laguna seca and still do fairly well for a fairly stock car.
But the engine doesn't make the power it should stock.

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I meant it as weak because its a 2.4 meaning is just about all SI gens the engine size was fairly close we should be at a minimum of 220 the 8th sticks to the tradition,at a hair under 100hp a liter ,ours falls short as the og ep k20 did although fun to drive kinda bland in spec of the power to liter ratio not in anyway saying our z7 sucks but it doesn't hold its own as the SI concept per tradition.
However I did buy my sedan SI specifically for the reason it makes its power way sooner and has we bit more torque and I wished mugen had made a varient to the 9thgencivic but they didn't so oh well.no mugen rr for our gen ,yet anyways.
As a commuter the SI is hard to beat in my particular Commute
No hybrid can hang with me as part of my Commute,I may use premium fuel but at 37 mpg no hybrid in the world gets that with over 1000 lbs of cargo,that equals 4 people and our bags and lunches.so if I wanted to I could go hit up Laguna seca and still do fairly well for a fairly stock car.
But the engine doesn't make the power it should stock.

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ok, i can agree the power should be alittle more(you can always use more power).....250 would be nice....but theres more to an engine than just HP.....this engine(due to a few factors) has a good amount of torque and at a lower rpm meaning you dont always have to down shift to be within the powerband. Being a GM fan all my life maybe i do need to brush on my Si knowlage(which is a big part on why i joined this forum). From my underatanding Honda has always been about HP coming from a small engine....i mean come on.....i belive my friends 90 integra type r has a B17 and puts out 160hp(compared to a 90 camaro z28 which has 245hp) which if you think about a 1.7liter putting out 160hp and a 5.7 putting out only 245hp its amazing they got 160 out of that little motor!!! But the 5.7 has 345lbs or torque.....but the car also wieghed like 3600lbs too.......what i'm trying to say is that a good motor needs to have a balance of HP and torque and at a fairly nice powerband.....but i guess this should be another thread, lol
 

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ok, i can agree the power should be alittle more(you can always use more power).....250 would be nice....but theres more to an engine than just HP.....this engine(due to a few factors) has a good amount of torque and at a lower rpm meaning you dont always have to down shift to be within the powerband. Being a GM fan all my life maybe i do need to brush on my Si knowlage(which is a big part on why i joined this forum). From my underatanding Honda has always been about HP coming from a small engine....i mean come on.....i belive my friends 90 integra type r has a B17 and puts out 160hp(compared to a 90 camaro z28 which has 245hp) which if you think about a 1.7liter putting out 160hp and a 5.7 putting out only 245hp its amazing they got 160 out of that little motor!!! But the 5.7 has 345lbs or torque.....but the car also wieghed like 3600lbs too.......what i'm trying to say is that a good motor needs to have a balance of HP and torque and at a fairly nice powerband.....but i guess this should be another thread, lol
I agree especially since I am too a gm fan its embarrassing in the hp dept that any big block can make but the tq thing well the damn crank weighs a lot,so theres the tq hell I have z28 69 engine with camel humps highly sought after but it doesn't make the power it should stock tq or hp I love Honda innovation,and although they didn't invent vtec or its purpose no company has achieved greater success in that dept than Honda.LOL imagine a 350 dohc with vtec holy crap grab a helmet and some extra underwear.but I do know what you mean only thing is our z7 is shy of what it could be

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