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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought a 2012 Civic EX Sedan in the middle of November of 2021 and already regret that I did not look for an SI. Well on the 28th of December I had an extended test drive of a 2017 SI which naturally gave me the fever. The thing is, even though I like the car it is overpriced and I believe it has the 1.5 liter engine. I have since located an SI that, while it is 70 miles away, it has the 2.4 liter engine, but it is a 2015 model with about 65,000 miles. Has anyone had a chance to drive both configurations and was the increase in power very noticeable?
 

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I have driven both and the big difference is torque delivery down low is improved in the 10th gen's due to the tuning and the turbo. I thought they did an excellent job with those compared to other brands though, as the powerband felt very natural. Usually you get a huge surge in power below 3000 rpm and it falls off the higher you go. Makes you not want to rev it out at all. New WRX's with the FA20 are a good example of this.

Otherwise, the power feels very much the same. The 10th gen is a much better platform and has greater aftermarket support. The L15 engine also makes it much easier to increase power for those that want that.

Disadvantages to the 10th gen would be the complexity of the powertrain compared to the 9th gen. K24 is very much tried-and-true and the last of the N/A Honda 4 cylinders you can make power with.

Like you mentioned, car values are crazy right now so if you can wait it out I would. Might be worth doing a deal if you happen to find a dealer that really wants your car and is willing to play fair on a trade-in. Otherwise, you'll be opening that wallet for sure...

My favorite listing so far was a, admittedly, pristine 2013 Si Coupe with the HFP package sitting at around 20,000 miles I think. Carvana wanted 29 grand... Yowza.
 

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The only problem, IMO, with buying a used Si is you don't know how it was treated.
 

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The only problem, IMO, with buying a used Si is you don't know how it was treated.
Indeed. Though in my experience the Si's to watch out for usually give themselves away if you are looking at them objectively (And knowing all the classic signs of neglect). It's when you show up to inspect it already in love that you can get yourself into trouble.

The added complexity and ease of power adding on the 10th gens has made it even more important.
 

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I Need A Vacation
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Totally different power delivery 10thgen power comes on at 2K RPM and tops out 5500RPM 9thgen doesn't make power till above 3500RPM and makes power till 7K RPM. Both have their pros and cons but personally I prefer all motor power curve.
 

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Owned a 2019 Si (totaled) and now a 2012 Si HFP.

Here is a list of comparisons:

1. K24Z7 Motor is much more fun to rev out, however the L15 is still good, probably faster even. Overall about the same.
2. Front end of the 2019 Si is much more responsive, quicker and controlled. More stable at high speeds too.
3. 2019 is much more flatter than the 2012, body roll on the 2012 is pretty significant so if you like planted, flat, responsive handling, then go for the 2019. From what I heard the 2015 body roll is much better than the 2012 though.
4. Fuel economy is something I did NOT expect to miss. L15 is so economical on fuel and you can have so much fun per liter of gas.
5. Shifter and clutch feel is about similar, no complaints on either model.
6. 2012-2015 civics have terrible aftermarket support
7. K24Z7 sounds amazing. L15 sounds like ass.

Also, if you get the 2017 model and have a little left over, get the HFP suspension upgrade. It's 1000% worth it, I've driven the 2019 si and the 2019 si HFP. the suspension makes a massive difference.

Keep in mind also that the L15B7 engines have an oil dilution problem, leading to premature wear of engine bearing contact surfaces. Fuel leaks into the oil and disrupts the properties of the oil protecting your engine and it's not something that is fixed overnight. A good fix is just changing your oil very often, probably every 5000km/3000miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Well, first thank you all for the interesting and informative responses. One of my options is no longer an option. I drove my little EX to the dealer offering the 2015 m y SI. Disappointment would be a severe understatement. The car would not even be an upgrade from my non-SI Civic. It had been smoked in. Salesman said, "We can fix that". Color me skeptical. The exterior was in fair condition but the needle really dropped off when I looked inside. There had been no effort to clean the car to present it. It had not even been vacuumed out. The handbrake button was missing. The only redeeming factor I can think of is the engine had a nice purr. On top of all that it was the second potential test drive in which the salesman could not drive a stick. After all this, believe it or not, I still had not walked away until the salesman made insulting remarks about a State college that I support and indicated that he had attended a rival State college. I asked him what was the curriculum there to be a car salesman. He studied his shoes while I began to walk toward my car. The experience made the slightly overpriced 2017 model seem much more attractive. Happy New Year everyone. To be continued....
 

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Truck? What truck?!
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7. K24Z7 sounds amazing. L15 sounds like ass.
If sound is important to you, then what DF wrote here could be a deal-breaker, which it was/is for me.

I (my wife, actually) have had two L15s already, a 2018 Accord, and now a 2021 CRV, and they both sound terrible.

I currently drive a 2015 Civic LX with a 5MT (the manual makes a big difference, afaic), and previous to that a 2012 LX with a 5AT, and even the 1800 cc with the 5AT sounds miles better than the L15, and the CVT makes it that much worse sounding.

For clarity, I am not all about ballstothewall performance, but a certain combination of everything to make a car appealling to me. Of course, everyone's preferences may differ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, now I've done it. I walked into the dealers today and offered $2k less than he was asking for the 2017 Si and he said I cannot do that out the door but how about your offer plus tax and title? I could not believe he was being so flexible after being firm on three previous visits. He claimed he was losing $1800 on the deal. I agreed to buy and it gave me room to add extended warranty. Color me a happy camper! On the exhaust note issue my wife was not exactly tickled with the sound of it either but man what a nice performing and handling car! Now I suppose I have a 2012 EX for sale.
 

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Well, now I've done it. I walked into the dealers today and offered $2k less than he was asking for the 2017 Si and he said I cannot do that out the door but how about your offer plus tax and title? I could not believe he was being so flexible after being firm on three previous visits. He claimed he was losing $1800 on the deal. I agreed to buy and it gave me room to add extended warranty. Color me a happy camper! On the exhaust note issue my wife was not exactly tickled with the sound of it either but man what a nice performing and handling car! Now I suppose I have a 2012 EX for sale.

Congrats on the Si

Enjoy it well :)

Also, here is a link to the HFP suspension ;)

 

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Awesome choice the car handles superior to the 9th gen. The 1.5 sure it sounds horrible but a quick tune with k tuner and you can easily have 240 whp plus and 280-300 ftlb of torque.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Awesome choice the car handles superior to the 9th gen. The 1.5 sure it sounds horrible but a quick tune with k tuner and you can easily have 240 whp plus and 280-300 ftlb of torque.
I am hesitant to expose my ignorance but I am not familiar with K tuner. Where I live you are more likely to find Challengers and Mustangs that will blow your doors off!
 

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Ktuner is a flash based tuner that allows user end adjustments to fuel ,ignition ,boost ect as well you areable to see real time data and datalog.
It will come preloaded with some maps, but I’d suggest even if you plan to add bolts on get a custom tune it will unlock a lot of potential and really improve drive ability.

Do not get hondata for the 10th gen civic si

Derek Robinson at imw is who I would recommend if you interested.

Innovative MotorWorks / IMWTuned.com
 

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Congrats OP. Hope it gives you a lot of enjoyment.

Also, here is a link to the HFP suspension ;)

Holy crap. Honda needs to re-evaluate that price tag.

I wish they would develop more than, what appears to be, a grudging acceptance of the existence of HFP and HPD.
 

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Congrats on the Si

Enjoy it well :)

Also, here is a link to the HFP suspension ;)

Yeah wow the price on thr HFP kit has gone way up. When I bought the full kit for my sedan not long after I bought the car the price was like half that iirc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
All right, then. Here is the rest of the story. The info display indicated an emissions system problem. I took the car back to get that sorted and the tech said that an aftermarket cat had been installed and of course Honda voided the warranty. The dealership manager called me in and said "I want your business but I have to protect our reputation". He said he would back out of the deal completely if I preferred and by then I had discovered a few hints about the previous owner. Although the maintenance minder indicated 100%, the oil was very dark and overfilled. Also there were indications on the underside that someone had been doing some curb surfing. Many expanding fasteners missing and bolts sheared off that held the shielding in place. I am grateful for the chance to void the deal but I cannot help wondering how much of the issues he knew about. It could be that his tech staff did not inform him but i sorta doubt that being the case. Now I will have some Weathertech floor liners and a moonroof wind deflector to return to Amazon. The experience makes the little EX look so much better now.
 

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That really sucks. It highlights the importance of pre purchase inspections, especially with sportier cars. Good that you were able to get out of the deal. Its like you just had a loaner car for a few days.
 
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