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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just letting you all know (as IF you don't know most of this already!!!) that I just got off the phone with North American Honda, Torrance about my Rev Hang that I've been "formally" complaining about - IN WRITING - since June - even have a "case number" wow!!! The "Chris" that I talked to gave me the same old "Honda Line" - that the programming of the Drive By Wire Throttle is programmed with Rev Hang to "promote smoother shifting between gears"......when I asked him just HOW OVER-revving between gears promotes smoother shifting, he repeated the exact same words to me as if he was a "robot" !!! When I told him that I DID, in fact, get an ECU Update from my Dealer that lessened the Rev Hang - he continued with his exact same "quote" - I pressed him further and he said that he currently OWNS a 2009 Si and it has the "exact same issues" and "that's the way they all are"..............so.....when you guys hear this same explanation from your Dealers on your Rev Hang complaints you should not be surprised..........that is THE Honda "Corporate Response" to this Issue. Now I've even read on here that one of us who sent their ECU off to Hondata for the "Reflash" Program notes that even THAT does not "completely cure" the Rev Hang............one more thing - this Chris said to me that the "exact same DBW Throttle is used with the exact same Engine/Trans in the TSX and ILX" - and they act "the exact same way"................welcome to Our Brave New World.................I give up....guess I'll just "live" with it and suffer thru premature clutch wear and clutch replacement.........IMHO my car is otherwise a great car.............
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
I honestly don't understand the Rev Hang thing. I never honestly have. It holds the RPM's for a brief period after the clutch is depressed, but it's only fractional, on the three Si's I've owned since 2006. I am highly prone to criticizing Honda after the deplorable way they handled the 3rd gear issues on the 2006-2011 Si models, but the Rev Hang has never bothered me, or I've never had it excessively.

However, I feel for you in the conversation you had with American Honda - I compiled a huge huge archive of Honda Case File Numbers for the third gear issues on last gen models, and in doing so with tight controls, we caught Honda in the middle of dozens and dozens of lies. They told us the case files we compiled never existed, and that Honda had never heard of that issue before.

I have very little faith in Honda's customer service. Never in my life have I been treated so poorly and lied to so extensively.

,,,and "that's" pretty pathetic from a Company who is supposed to be a "Highly-esteemed Performance Engine Builder" isn't it!! I always admired Honda for their Engine & Trans Engineering. I've shifted cars for 50 years and this car makes me feel like an "amateur" at times......you can either shift it "slow" driving in traffic or almost "speed shift" it driving faster with higher revs. Some guys keep asking about the term "Wireless Throttle" - look on the Honda Website for the Si - they even "brag" about it. And Wireless Throttles HAVE been around for awhile - but the ones I had on cars before never were "tuned" this way.....I still feel it's more for CAFE Emission Standards no matter what the Honda "response" is on it. Otherwise the S2000's would have been tuned this way too - but they were a few years earlier with less strict CAFE Standards. I had a 2007 Eclipse Spyder GT with 3.8L V6 and 6-spd AND "wireless throttle" and it NEVER acted this way - but that was FIVE "Model Years" ago........I'm beginning to realize that it's a "Sign of the Times" - no wonder so many HiPo cars are going to autos...look at most of the new Ferraris & Lambos, etc........

Sorry Guys, I think us "Manual Guys" have LOST.................
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I still can't find any information on what "wireless throttle" actually means. It is listed here and there (though this thread is the top google result for "wireless throttle"+ honda ) but there is no definition or explanation. I know it has been around... it just sounds really funny and I'm curious to learn where that name came from. The implication is that there is actually a lack of wires...
Cant believe you dont understand this term/wording. There is NO "physical connection" (Wire/Cable) between the Gas Pedal IN the car and the Engine Throttle.........the Gas Pedal is now a "transmitter/rheostat" that sends it's "position" - electronically - to the ECU/Throttle "receiver"..........it's the same thing as Wireless Flight Controls on new aircraft - there IS NO physical connection anymore......
 
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Well... there still is a physical wire... the term wireless is what throws me off... there are in fact several wires involved. It is just that it goes from the pedal to the ECU then the ECU controls the throttle actuation rather than directly from the pedal to the throttle. I come from the IT world, if we say wireless we mean no wires :biglaugh: I thought this setup was called drive by wire and not wireless.
Are you SURE about the "wires" ?? I dont think there are ANY at all. The Gas Pedal (transmitter) "transmits" position to the ECU/Throttle (receiver) - wirelessly
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I really don't understand the rev hang frustration. The only time I've ever seen the revs increase between shifts is when I intentionally leave my foot on the throttle. Otherwise, revs just stay were I left them until next gear is selected and clutch is back out..
That is BULL!! May happen in your car but what most of us are complaining about is Rev OVER-RUN - up to 500 RPM's - and it is NOT because we keep our foot on the gas when we push in the clutch - I have shifted cars for 50 years and have NEVER experienced this before - but think it is "tuned into" these new cars - so.....Rev HANG (holding RPM's the SAME as when you lift OFF the gas and then push IN the clutch) might not be that uncomfortable but Rev OVER-RUN certainly IS - it is UN-natural yet seemingly a New-Age response to CAFE Standards...so your observances and opinions are definitely credible in your Si but that is NOT what the majority of us are experiencing - and we DO know how to shift Manuals......on another subject I went back and looked at the Honda Website for the Si and I was "wrong" they call it a "Drive By Wire" Throttle not a "Wireless Throttle" - so just what "wires" are connected between the Gas Pedal and the Throttle itself I'm not sure but there certainly is no Cabled physical connection that connects to How Much you push the Gas Pedal down.
 
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Ok catlwr, you need to either relax or learn how to type on the Interwebs. I'm giving my observation on the situation as it pertains to my car. I get NO OVERRUN on MY Si unless I leave my foot on the accelerator. Rev hang? Yes. Overrun..nope. Resume ranting.
What are you talking about?? I included in my post that your opinion counts - but that it's on YOUR Si - what more do you want? I'm "ranting" because of the continued implying from some of you guys that the Rev OVER-run is from those who experience it - "not know HOW to shift correctly" - that is not the case - YOU have "no over-run" - valid observation. Those of us who DO have "rev over-run" also have valid observations - and we DO know "how" to properly shift manuals...........
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Could this mean the transmitter in the throttle had a delay "bad connection" just like wireless internet and it causes rev float or rev interruption.... so the fix strong transmitter with less of a communication error "delay"

sent from my galaxy s3

proud owner of 2012 si sedan w nav, crystal black pearl built in Alliston.
You would think that if that "delay" you mention were the cause - that the same thing would happen when you INcrease from the Gas Pedal (transmitter) - that doesn't seem to be the case - INSTANT Response when you INcrease - DELAYED (and RPM INcrease) Response when you "lift" OFF the gas ........
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
Rev hang isn't a big deal and won't cause your clutch to prematurely blow up. People need to quit the crying.
Look - in the first place - I didn't post this to again debate the Pros & Cons of Revhang - I posted it to let you guys know what I just heard from NA Honda Corporate when I just talked to one of their Reps - what is apparently THE Honda Corporate "line" on this issue. As to whether Rev Hang (OVER Run) is a "big deal" or not, that's a personal issue based on experience with Manual Trans cars - and we're not "crying" over it - we're pissed off about it AND Honda's "response" about it. This is starting to sound like a "Generational Issue" about HOW to shift Manuals!! When you "downshift" a Manual what do you do?? You "blip" the gas to "Rev Match" the Clutch RPM's with the Engine RPM's - yes?? When you Upshift (unless you're really ON it) when you push in the clutch to get in the next Higher Gear, the "opposite" should take place......and...IF a programmed ECU/Throttle, in fact HELD the RPM's when you did that, it would be OK - BUT - when you go thru that process and shift into the Higher Gear pushing the clutch IN and the Engine RPM's INCREASE 200-500 RPM - when you re-engage the Clutch... the Engine & Clutch are NOT "matched" and you get Clutch "slippage" and "sloppy shifts".............IF this is not such a BIG issue then "why" are so many of us really disappointed with this on the Si??

Again - all my Original Post here was about is "information" - the "latest" info I had just gotten from NA Honda ABOUT the issue - not a re-hash of "Is Rev Hang good or bad" - or - IF certain Owners like it or not. Obviously many of us do NOT.....
 
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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
I believe the 'rev over-run' occurs during high acceleration. I have experienced rev over-run but only during activities than might invite unwelcome attention from the police. That said, this car likes those activities! The Reflash solved the rev over-run problem.

One minor downside of the Reflash may occur during the use of the cruise control in very hilly conditions. When going downhill, there is a distinct jerk as the throttle closes and the car coasts for a short bit. I do not think that feeling was there when the rev hang was still present. While I agree that the rev hang is a product of the emissions controls, there appears to be something related to the driveability also. Does anyone know if this engine/ECU has 'fuel cutoff' during coasting?
You're not listening to us - we're talking about Rev OVER-run when upshifting "normally" - normal acceleration and UPshifting from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th at around 3000/3500 RPM - and getting Rev OVER run - ERRATICALLY - of anywhere 200 to 500 RPM's. Again NOT "racing"...........
 
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