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I bought my 2013 si knowing it wasn't as fast as my SRT-4 but knowing its way more reliable. I love the car and happy with its performance. But I do see a turbo in the future, it's ways nice to make mustang and Camaro guys cry.
 

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In 1999 honda gave us a civic si that made 160bhp from a 1.6 liter engine(100bhp/liter) They did it again in 2006 when a 2 liter engine made 197bhp (close enough). I really dont think its unrealistic to expect 240hp or maybe even 230hp out of the k24. Honda dropped the ball on that one
Correct.

But we are also talking about a car maker who's primary focus has usually been economy cars. It is unrealistic to expect the numbers you posted.

You really think it's realistic to expect Honda to bump up a Civic that high when they only put 240 hp in the S2000 ($33K) and 280 hp in the NSX ($80K)?

C'mon.:dizzy:
 

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Correct.

But we are also talking about a car maker who's primary focus has usually been economy cars. It is unrealistic to expect the numbers you posted.

You really think it's realistic to expect Honda to bump up a Civic that high when they only put 240 hp in the S2000 ($33K) and 280 hp in the NSX ($80K)?

C'mon.:dizzy:
And the strongest motor Honda has made for production is only available with a very high price tag and only a hair over 300 hp.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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In 1999 honda gave us a civic si that made 160bhp from a 1.6 liter engine(100bhp/liter) They did it again in 2006 when a 2 liter engine made 197bhp (close enough). I really dont think its unrealistic to expect 240hp or maybe even 230hp out of the k24. Honda dropped the ball on that one
Exactly what i have been saying. I think people just like to argue for the sake of it. Fact is: we should already have these kinds of numbers.

Oh well, i guess it will just make the 10th gen all that better of a blockbuster in 2015
 

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I wouldn't expect much more than a minor refresh for the civic before 2017. Gen 8 lasted 6 model years before being replaced. That's a fairly average time between model updates. Also, The Si is more about handling and balance than it is about raw power. Much more power than the Si has in a FWD platform gets a bit squirrely with torque steer, like the Mazdaspeed 3. I wouldn't expect a larger bump of more than 15 horsepower in the next Si.
 

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Although I disagree on it being fast enough (lol I can always use more power), this is spot on. Hell the main reason I bought my Si was the fact that I was unhappy with my Fit b/c it lacked power. I'd really wanted to move into either one of the big 3's muscle cars or an entry luxo sedan like an A4 or 3 series. But the muscle cars used too much gas for my mega commutes and I couldn't stand the fact that the 328 and the A4 were not really much more powerful than the Si yet cost AS MUCH as the v-8 muscle cars. So with the Si I got a bit of balance with what I had hoped (and is now in fact coming true) was the potential for more power through the aftermarket.

A lot of you are forgetting what Honda has always been verses what you always wanted Honda to be. You talk of Honda's legacy? Do you realize what Honda's legacy is? Small, cheap, efficient, reliable cars. If I remember correctly, Honda made it's reputation on the Civic for being economical and dependable, not for winning a 1975 comparo with the muscle car du jour. The Si's combination of hp, torque, and fuel economy are a marvel and a testament to that legacy.

To me, the Civic should be an affordable economy car with lively handling. It should be fun to drive, eager to go, with a spunky, puppy-dog-like personality, brimming with enthusiasm and ready to chase that stick the second you throw it. Price should be low, but at the mid-range or high-end of its class. As an economy car, it should never be luxurious. It should be the economy car equivalent of a Formula 1 car.

The Si Civics should be even sportier, especially in terms of horsepower. Handling between Si and non-Si Civics should be the same: firm suspension; responsive steering feedback.

No Civic should have great gobs of power. That goes against what a Civic is, IMO.
 

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I wouldn't expect much more than a minor refresh for the civic before 2017. Gen 8 lasted 6 model years before being replaced. That's a fairly average time between model updates. Also, The Si is more about handling and balance than it is about raw power. Much more power than the Si has in a FWD platform gets a bit squirrely with torque steer, like the Mazdaspeed 3. I wouldn't expect a larger bump of more than 15 horsepower in the next Si.

Dont forget that the 8th gen was a huge success for the company, unlike the 9th so far.

and also, you seem to have made those numbers up lol
 

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Dont forget that the 8th gen was a huge success for the company, unlike the 9th so far.

and also, you seem to have made those numbers up lol
Let's see.

The first year for the 8th gen, 2006, Honda totaled 316,000 US sales, rounded to the nearest thousand. In 2012, the first year for the 'cheap' (along with other not-so-nice adjective) 9th gen, U.S. Civic sales totaled 318,000.

The 9th gen, particularly a car that many here say is not up-to-snuff, is hardly a failure.
 

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Let's see.

The first year for the 8th gen, 2006, Honda totaled 316,000 US sales, rounded to the nearest thousand. In 2012, the first year for the 'cheap' (along with other not-so-nice adjective) 9th gen, U.S. Civic sales totaled 318,000.

The 9th gen, particularly a car that many here say is not up-to-snuff, is hardly a failure.

I guess you would have to be familiar with business to understand the negative side of what you just wrote.

If honda goes to its shareholders and says we sold no more civics in 2013 than in 2006 (meaning; no growth in 6 years) they are going to throw a fit. Maintaining a user base is great, but business is about expansion.
 

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And there are other factors to consider, as well. A booming 2006 economy vs a still recovering (7 1/2% unemployment) 2012 economy (and still recovering, but nowhere near 2006 levels).

All in all, not a bad, although not great, either, showing - 2k units more in a still depressed economy.
 

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Many of the 9th reviews I read stated the 9th was better overall than the 8th. Dunno if I'd agree ... I only drove an 8th automatic loaner for like 30 minutes total. From what I've read, the 8th has firmer steering and suspension, which is important.
 

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I guess you would have to be familiar with business to understand the negative side of what you just wrote.

If honda goes to its shareholders and says we sold no more civics in 2013 than in 2006 (meaning; no growth in 6 years) they are going to throw a fit. Maintaining a user base is great, but business is about expansion.
Expansion isn't only about units sold, but also about revenue per unit sold. The base price of a civic is a bit higher now than it was than in 2006. And what numbers did I make up? All I said is that I wouldn't expect Honda to do anything different than it has in the past 40 years (ie only minor improvements in power and drivability over previous models). The only hard number I gave was the number of model years the model existed for, which is 2006-2011 (6 years).
 

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Discussion Starter #95
Well I decided to get a BRZ Limited or WRX after all. Honda does some things better but I have to go with another brand as upgrading is just too much for this particular car. Thanks for discussing with me.
 
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