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So, I've recently decided to do this modification. I've read a bunch of stuff on unorthodox's website and despite the bad grammar and spelling mistakes, the guys on that blog present some really valid arguments. I think for many this is a scary mod to do, simply because it involves taking apart something on the engine, which let's be honest, is scary for folks who are not well experienced. I am NOT experienced by my friend is and I trust the guy fully, he was like "oh yea, aluminum pulleys, great idea, you will def see HP and TQ gains". From the reading on unorthodox's website, and from my email discussion with Mike at the company, the logic is sound. The gains, as they say, is mainly from the reduced weight of the pulleys themselves, the 15-20% is the underdrive component.

If the same logic works with a lightened flywheel, then lightened pulleys relies on that same logic. The engine has to work harder to move the parts connected to it, plain and simple. You reduce that weight, the engine works better, runs faster and is less restricted. The same exact logic is put into AF downpipes and cat-backs, reduce the resistance (aka cat deletes and PCD's) and the engine runs better, more power, quicker revs.

Again, I'm gonna be doing this and buying all 4 pulleys for the project, which will amount to about $560. (Crank, alternator, tensioner and idler) the tensioner and idler are sold separately and the crank and alternator are sold as the package on pro-civic. I will ATTEMPT to make a DIY on this, but there is no promise. Unorthodox makes a good statement about their pulleys from their blog on the site, that other aftermarket companies don't balance the individual pulleys themselves, which from what I understand is extremely important. Plus, if you look at NST vs. UR, you'll see that UR pulleys are 10% lighter than NST (80% vs. 70%). I know BC makes pulleys too, and their advertised gains are less than UR and NST.

We'll see how it goes! I'll keep you all informed.
i am glad your gonna install pulley, they are great investments, but i can tell you this, you only need under drive crank pulley, the rest i really can't tell you if they make any powers at all...

i have a set up that i use factory type-r + buddy club crank pulley and it makes a world of difference, the factory ecu auto adjust the rev limiter to 7500-7600 after the pulley install, and the rpm pulls alot faster like a old school, high revving k series motor.


i used ur on all my b series and they are great... but on the k, i like solid pulley design over pulley with holes in it...


reason ? just safer, solid pulley are harder to crack than pulley with holes in it...

toda racing


buddy club


ur
 

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These are the conversations we should be having! Im gonna side with pro civic on this one...solid doesnt always mean better, I reference flywheels with this, the holes in the lighter flywheels dont necessarily mean they are weaker. Now, with rotors, EBC seems to believe that drilled rotors are weaker than dimpled and they actually do not make drilled rotors because they say it compromises the integrity of the rotor.

With pulleys it may be another story. I dont see solid pulleys as being stronger if we look at other structures here. In the creation of any pulleys you likely have a cast mold which the aluminum is poured into, much like with an engine block. With all pours comes chances for unevenness in material distribution because of how quickly aluminum cools and because of thousands of micro variables we cant even begin to list.

UR's approach is to remove sections of the pulley, which may sound like it destroys integrity but in other applications, this process actually strengthens the pulley, much like hollowing our strut bars over solid ones. I cant exactly explain it like a physicist would or a structural engineer would, but its not always so simple to thing solid means stronger. I reference wine glasses here...which may crack very easily but, (I believe its tensile strength) is off the charts, hence why you can stand on top of a wine glass and it doesnt break. There are multiple types of strengths that need to be analyzed to say one pulley is stronger over another.

Food for thought!
 

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These are the conversations we should be having! Im gonna side with pro civic on this one...solid doesnt always mean better, I reference flywheels with this, the holes in the lighter flywheels dont necessarily mean they are weaker. Now, with rotors, EBC seems to believe that drilled rotors are weaker than dimpled and they actually do not make drilled rotors because they say it compromises the integrity of the rotor.

With pulleys it may be another story. I dont see solid pulleys as being stronger if we look at other structures here. In the creation of any pulleys you likely have a cast mold which the aluminum is poured into, much like with an engine block. With all pours comes chances for unevenness in material distribution because of how quickly aluminum cools and because of thousands of micro variables we cant even begin to list.

UR's approach is to remove sections of the pulley, which may sound like it destroys integrity but in other applications, this process actually strengthens the pulley, much like hollowing our strut bars over solid ones. I cant exactly explain it like a physicist would or a structural engineer would, but its not always so simple to thing solid means stronger. I reference wine glasses here...which may crack very easily but, (I believe its tensile strength) is off the charts, hence why you can stand on top of a wine glass and it doesnt break. There are multiple types of strengths that need to be analyzed to say one pulley is stronger over another.

Food for thought!
i am not sure how ur made their pulley, i am a long time UR underdrive pulley user since the 90's, but since the introduction of a solid pulley in the early 2000's, i prefer toda racing style pulley which is solid 1pc forged, buddy club is a copy of a toda racing but it's 60% cheaper and they both are 7071 aluminum forged..

but which ever you choose, you will love the performance of it...


for people that think we have a harmonic balancer
here is a video of a ctr crankshaft being balanced with a clutch & a buddy club crank pulley.
if we need a harmonic balancer ? there is no way anyone can balance the stock crank without harmonic balancer
 

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Very interested to hear your feedback.
I had a lightweight underdrive crank pulley on my other car some years ago. Full disclosure, part 1 - it was a 3.4L Chevy V6, so not exactly a sultan of smoothness.
I never experienced any real problems (except for a few drips of oil leaking from the front main seal). When that motor came apart after about 30,000 miles, I could not detect any appreciable bearing wear. The motor did seem to have a bit more pep, although I do not have any objective measurements to verify or refute that.
Full disclosure, part 2 - when I had a new motor built a few summers ago for the same car (again, a 3.4L Chevy V6, but this time with forged internals and balanced by the machine shop), I had left it up to the machine shop to use the same lightweight underdrive crank pulley, or use an OEM-style Powerbond damper pulley. They used the Powerbond pulley. So interpret as you will.
 

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That's an interesting story about domestic applications and pulleys. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with Chevy motors to say how they are internally balanced or how a pulley might affect their longevity. It seems from your experience though that the pulleys work just a reliably as they would on a Honda motor.
 

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It's not out of the realm of possibilities that the light weight pulley you had was defective or was made by a company that has poor R & D...if there was an oil leak, esp if it was coming from where the pulley was, then maybe it was installed incorrectly or it wasnt the right part etc. Assuming it was the right part, installed correctly etc there are other a million other reasons why your engine fell apart. As far as why the shop put back on the OEM crank, I assume its for liability issues on their part. Most shops will recommend OEM parts because they dont want to be in a lawsuit for recommending aftermarket parts. From what ive seen myself, most shops will make you sign a waiver or an agreement regarding aftermarket parts because there is the chance it doesnt fit or something is wrong with it. Unfortunately I think there are too many factors to consider. I also dont know much about crankshaft balancing on V6 vs I4 motors. Maybe theres a difference based on angles etc.
 

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i have read both articles....

let me copy & paste...

"Personal experience...We abuse the drive train launching at 8000 rpm and shifting over 10,000 rpm."

this is how you blow your motor up, even at bone stock, who in the world launch at 8,000RPM ? and how many bolt on k series you know can rev to 10k ?

it's why this laskey racing review is very strange.
 

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It's funny, after reading those articles I said to myself "wow, maybe it's not worth it"....but then I realized, they didn't wait the 5-7 days after the install for the ECU to re-calibrate the engine to see the HP and TQ gains. I wonder why that was....interesting
 

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It's funny, after reading those articles I said to myself "wow, maybe it's not worth it"....but then I realized, they didn't wait the 5-7 days after the install for the ECU to re-calibrate the engine to see the HP and TQ gains. I wonder why that was....interesting

r40 pulley.jpg

k series use crank pulley, not a harmonic balancer


 

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20170514_174915.jpg 20170514_174906.jpg 20170514_174733.jpg 20170514_174649.jpg 20170514_174643.jpg 20170514_174628.jpg 20170514_174544.jpg

Update:

Hope no one minds, seems like this topic is only really followed by a few of us and I seem to be hogging the attention on them. I went ahead and washed my new pulleys today, which is in the instructions/directions from Unorthodox. I ordered them from ProCivic recently and I went ahead and weighed them in ounces and grams so we can see what is what on numbers wise.

I couldn't turn the pics sideways or right side up, so sorry about that. And yes, I used our "perfect bake" scale haha, it was all I had to use!

Now for the numbers:

Idler Pulley (not the tensioner) installs directly above the alternator pulley. This pulley has a bearing pressed into it already, which is the only one compared to the alternator pulley and the crank pulley, they have no bearing at all.

Idler weighs 5.48 oz OR 155 grams. The info on Unorthodox's website is a typo, as it says it is weighs 12 oz, but on procivic's site it weighs in at .35 lbs which is the same as 5.48 oz


The alternator pulley weighs 3.12 oz OR 88 grams, this is the smallest pulley out of the 3 and the lightest as well. This specific number is not on either UR's site or ProCivic's site.

The crank pulley weighs 9.24 oz OR 262 grams. Obviously it's the biggest of the three and heaviest, but still not even a pound. The crank pulley comes with a pressed seal on it, which is tapered and then you put the crank seal on that, which is included in the kit bought through ProCivic.

The combined weight of the three pulleys is 18.02 oz OR 511 grams, which is very light, barely breaking the 1 pound mark. The crank pulley kit weighs a combined 12.36 oz OR 350 grams, again, not even a pound. Also, this number is incorrect on UR's site and not on ProCivic's site.

So far my first impressions of this kit are very good. Once I cleaned up the oil/dirt from the pulleys they are very clean and have lots of sparkles haha. Seriously tho, they are nicely constructed. No damages of any kind on all three, and the crank comes with 10 different timing notches on the inner most ring of the pulley. The edges are smooth and there wasn't anything for me to file down, modify or sand etc, it was in perfect condition.

I showed the kit to another car guy, the one who will be helping me with the install and he was impressed. He loves CNC machining and said that they were all very well constructed.

The rest of the crank/alt kit comes with a crank seal and a new belt, neither the kit nor the idler pulley comes with instructions, they simply direct you to look it up online on UR's site, which is fine. I didn't have to get the idler pulley but said what the heck and did it anyway. I will be installing these hopefully this coming weekend when the weather here is nicer.

Ask any questions if you need to. I will be doing a weigh in of all the OEM pulleys to show the exact difference and the overall percentage of weight reduction using my perfect and flawless weighing system!
 

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^I appreciate the feedback. I'm gonna try my best to do a DIY on this with pictures, not video. My feeling is that the install will go as smooth as it can, I don't have unrealistic expectations, when you start taking bolts off, just about any problem can occur.

I'm gonna look for a few things, which I have found reading pages online and within other forums.

1. MPG increases (this seems to be a universal gain that most see after installing)
2. Rev hang either decreases or is gone completely (I'm gonna guess it won't be as significant after the install but still there somewhat)
3. Rev-matching and downshifting become easier, less work the engine has to do to speed up the RPM
4. Performance gains in HP and TQ (not to the extent of anything crazy, maybe feeling more "pep"?)
5. Accelerating will feel easier and revs will rise and fall easier
6. A general feeling that the engine is smoother and not as "jerky"

There are other things out there but I can't think of them all at the moment. I will give my honest opinion after the install. From what others have posted in other forums on other engines, the dynos show an increase in power (yes, I know pulley's don't "increase" power but free-up power that was already there). People on other forums tend to use a play on language, which I think is just another way to piss people off, with regards to pulleys don't add power, despite what the dyno sheet says.

If anything, more MPG is a great gain if you ask me....worst case scenario. I doubt that will be the only thing I notice and I am hoping that it was worth the time and money. If anything else, the experience is priceless. I'll be sure to post before and after pics, also weight differences in OEM vs UR pulleys and anything else that becomes important to note to others. It seems this is a taboo type of install for some, not sure why, but it is what it is. I'm hoping to help someone else out with their indecisiveness or ambivalence. Thanks.
 

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I couldn't turn the pics sideways or right side up, so sorry about that. And yes, I used our "perfect bake" scale haha, it was all I had to use!
Turn your phone sideways when you take the pictures, then upload normally. Should load upright and correctly. :winky:
 

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Set backs today....

I attempted the install of the 3 pulleys today...only got the idler pulley in.

Gotta get the special crank pulley tool and also a special tool for the alternator pulley, see my pics. The alternator is a combo of a 22mm nut screwed on over a 10mm bolt. You need to hold the 10mm bolt down to undo the 22mm. Otherwise the entire belt system just keeps turning.

The crank needs a 50mm tool that sits on the inside of the OEM pulley, while you then use the 19mm. As per instructions, "put in top gear, have partner press on the brake while using impact gun"....yeah nope! Totally useless. And I have brand new brake pads on brand new rotors...didnt do anything.

Plan of attack now is to buy a 22mm open socket, used for oxygen sensor, to tackle the 10mm alt bolt combo nightmare and also to buy the 50mm honda tool. Then we need some different breaker bars.

As for the idler pulley info....

From my last post, UR idler weighs 5.48 oz and OEM weighs 7.48 oz. This is a 2 oz difference or 36.5%. Plus it looks nice as hell. The OEM idler comes in two pieces, the pulley itself and then a cap for a washer, a larger washer, see pics. The UR does not reuse the washer, only the OEM bolt.

The alt pulley is a real pain...instructions say to take the alt out to install....yeah right, not gonna do that, total waste of time. Plus if we did, we needed that special tool anyway so it woulda been a wash.

Thats all for today folks.
 

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