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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I have a 2010 Accord LX Sedan (5AT) that I've just finished a turbo build on, and I have a vague idea of what to do next, but I want to see what the more experienced people's opinions are on it.

A little about the car/build:

Suspension/Brakes/Wheels:
Koni FSD + Eibach Prokit
4th gen FWD TL RSB
Firestone Firehawk Indy 500
EX trim strut brace

Build:
I did a very budget build without trying to skimp on parts. Just a bit under $2000 total.
I used a MHI TD04L-14T from a Volvo 2.5L T5 motor as my OEM turbo. Spent just under $200 including a self rebuild. All the AN lines, waterlines, end fittings, adapters etc were from Summit Racing. It's a mix of Vibrant and Summit Racing brands. Mishimoto sandwich plate, MRP MAF housing, Mishimoto or Upgr8d intake couplers, Mishimoto intercooler, custom full 304SS 3" downpipe, OEM RDX injectors, DeatschWerks 65c fuel pump. You get the idea. Car was tuned by Etunez with Ktuner.

I'm happy with the build for the most part, the torque down low really improves the drive-ability of the car. The car does 0-60 in about 6.8sec. or 10-60 in about 5.6sec. (I know that's very slow by this forum's standards, but considering the car did 0-60 in 9sec stock, it's not bad) 1st gear will spins no matter what I did. The lack of a LSD and very worn summer tires definitely doesn't help.

Problem:
One problem that I have is the injectors. I didn't realize that the RDX injectors aren't suppose to fix the stock intake runners. I got mine to fit and seal by changing the washer/spacer on the fuel rail mount so that the fuel rail sits much lower. There doesn;t seem to be any leak of kind, but I'm a little worried even after 5000miles.

Another problem that I have is the turbo itself. First, I can't get past 7.9psi below 4500rpm or the compressor will surge (I've adjusted the WG to just below that to prevent the turbo from tearing itself apart). Once past 4500rpm, the pressure drops fairly quickly by about 3-4psi by red line. Second, the turbo spools almost too quick. The turbo can reach full boost at about 1800rpm under load (5th gear). But the real issue it that if you put your foot down suddenly instead of rolling onto the throttle, the car will go lean to the point where it almost stalls.

Future:
I picked up a GT3076R this weekend along with a internal wastegate turbine housing, I was hoping that this will resolve the turbo spooling issue considering the much bigger turbine and compressor wheels, and the larger A/R (0.82 compared to 0.49 on the TD04. The TD04 also uses the T3 bolt pattern but with a smaller inlet, so very little exhaust modification is needed.

I was gonna get an RBC intake so that the RDX injectors fit correctly, but my data logs shows that the RDX injectors are pretty close to maxing out. With the bigger turbo, I was thinking that I should get 750cc injectors that fits the stock intake runner correctly? Especially considering that the stock IM holds up fine under boost.

I appreciate any help or insight.

I tried to keep this short, so if anything didn;t make sense or need more explanation, LMK.
 

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I'm curious if the RBC swap would help your turbo flutter in low rpms. I'm not sure what the restriction is on you engine. Personally I'd go with 1,000cc injectors. That way your future proofed on them. I would think 750cc would be just fine for your application, and will probably idle better tho.
Awesome build, by the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm curious if the RBC swap would help your turbo flutter in low rpms. I'm not sure what the restriction is on you engine. Personally I'd go with 1,000cc injectors. That way your future proofed on them. I would think 750cc would be just fine for your application, and will probably idle better tho.
Awesome build, by the way.
Thanks, I'll start looking into 1000cc injectors.

From my reading, it looks like the restriction might actually be on the exhaust side. The hot side might be too small for the car.

The TD04L-14T specs:
Compressor wheel: 39.5 / 51 mm
Turbine wheel: 41.3 / 47 mm

In addition, I still have the factory Cat Back, which is tiny. So that might also be restricting flow a bit.

I can't think of a real restriction on the intake side, the charge pipe is as follows:
Turbo > 2" Charge pipe > 2.5" Charge pipe > Intercooler > 2.5" Charge pipe > 3.25" MAF housing > Stock intake flex hose.

The motor is almost identical to the Z7 and Z3, except mine came with a lower compression ratio and a slightly lower rev limit (AFAIK).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So this weekend, the weather has really warmed up, and I'm noticing a quicker increase in IAT under boost. For reference, could anyone tell me their IAT compared to ambient after a few pulls? Mine is pushing 30-40+ (F) ambient.
 

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I can't tell you exactly right now numbers. I know it takes a good several second pull for my IAT sensor to register a true number.
I used Amazon "OBD1" intake senors, 2 bolt type. I plan to "shave" it and retune for more boost. If yours is the same, the plastic their in, is very resistant to temp changes. If your tuner did a good job, your not a peak power but safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't have a dedicated IAT sensor, I think the number I'm seeing is coming directly from the MAF sensor. I have Ktuner constantly plugged in and is monitoring stats continuously through a Galaxy Tab A 10.1" in the car. The number changes quite actively.
 

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It depends on power, someone posted in the last year on what the Max power the MAF (maybe not yours) can read. IIRC somewhere north of 300. If it's in the stock MAF sensor, then your good, they are very accurate. If you have any other sensors in your intake, between intercooler-throttle body, send a pic.
What boost, and are you intercooled? I'll collect data the next warm day on my car. It's important to remember, when you compress air you heat it. If you turbo is properly sized, read below.
Your not really heating the air. The air has say XXXXXXXXXXXXXX amount of heat. You squeeze that air down to XXXXXXX. Your heat didn't leave, so you end up with a smaller volume, with the same heat energy (so reads hotter, it's less dense but same pressure).
Air density is weight. Air weight makes power. At equal pressure, cold air is heavier than hot. If your still with me, your hotter air may be normal for your car, your tune, your turbo. Ideally we want Ambient air temps on our intake temps on a boosted car. However, our intercooler cannot do this, as a 99.9% efficient intercooler would be tremendous boost lag (intake volume would increase requiring so much compressed air it wouldn't be worth it).
This is why people love E85, methanol (I desperately want methonal) injection. It cools the air before the cylinders.
 

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I picked up a GT3076R this weekend along with a internal wastegate turbine housing, I was hoping that this will resolve the turbo spooling issue considering the much bigger turbine and compressor wheels, and the larger A/R (0.82 compared to 0.49 on the TD04. The TD04 also uses the T3 bolt pattern but with a smaller inlet, so very little exhaust modification is needed..
I think you have found the limit of the turbo, it cannot flow enough to keep up with the k-series engine which is limiting your boost pressure and causing the tapering on the top end. I believe that turbo is only rated to max like 250 crank hp?

Also isn't the td04 a t25 inlet? You would need a adapter for the t3 gt3076?
The gt3076 is going to be a totally different animal and can make upwards of 400+ whp. So I'm sure you won't have any flow issues there.

Cool build, keep us posted.


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So this weekend, the weather has really warmed up, and I'm noticing a quicker increase in IAT under boost. For reference, could anyone tell me their IAT compared to ambient after a few pulls? Mine is pushing 30-40+ (F) ambient.
This is not uncommon at all. Especially for IAT measured via the MAF.
During a pull it should drop if the intercooler is working properly. Then at idle or any closed throttle or will jump back up. Extended cruising, I would say 5-10 degrees above ambient is good.

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Discussion Starter #13
It depends on power, someone posted in the last year on what the Max power the MAF (maybe not yours) can read. IIRC somewhere north of 300. If it's in the stock MAF sensor, then your good, they are very accurate. If you have any other sensors in your intake, between intercooler-throttle body, send a pic.
What boost, and are you intercooled? I'll collect data the next warm day on my car. It's important to remember, when you compress air you heat it. If you turbo is properly sized, read below.
Your not really heating the air. The air has say XXXXXXXXXXXXXX amount of heat. You squeeze that air down to XXXXXXX. Your heat didn't leave, so you end up with a smaller volume, with the same heat energy (so reads hotter, it's less dense but same pressure).
Air density is weight. Air weight makes power. At equal pressure, cold air is heavier than hot. If your still with me, your hotter air may be normal for your car, your tune, your turbo. Ideally we want Ambient air temps on our intake temps on a boosted car. However, our intercooler cannot do this, as a 99.9% efficient intercooler would be tremendous boost lag (intake volume would increase requiring so much compressed air it wouldn't be worth it).
This is why people love E85, methanol (I desperately want methonal) injection. It cools the air before the cylinders.
Good ole Ideal Gas Law. The car is intercooled and is the stock MAF, I guess since this is my first turbo car, I'm just not sure how much IAT increase is considered "normal".

I think you have found the limit of the turbo, it cannot flow enough to keep up with the k-series engine which is limiting your boost pressure and causing the tapering on the top end. I believe that turbo is only rated to max like 250 crank hp?

Also isn't the td04 a t25 inlet? You would need a adapter for the t3 gt3076?
The gt3076 is going to be a totally different animal and can make upwards of 400+ whp. So I'm sure you won't have any flow issues there.

Cool build, keep us posted.
250 crank sounds about right, the turbo and the catback is probably the bottle neck in this build.

Some are, mine is a circular inlet with a T3 bolt pattern. When I made my manifold adapter, I had everything drew up in CAD. The bolt pattern matches the T3 bolt pattern exactly.


This is not uncommon at all. Especially for IAT measured via the MAF.
During a pull it should drop if the intercooler is working properly. Then at idle or any closed throttle or will jump back up. Extended cruising, I would say 5-10 degrees above ambient is good.
Mine is exactly as you described, so I guess I'm good then.
 

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Good ole Ideal Gas Law. The car is intercooled and is the stock MAF, I guess since this is my first turbo car, I'm just not sure how much IAT increase is considered "normal".


250 crank sounds about right, the turbo and the catback is probably the bottle neck in this build.

Some are, mine is a circular inlet with a T3 bolt pattern. When I made my manifold adapter, I had everything drew up in CAD. The bolt pattern matches the T3 bolt pattern exactly.




Mine is exactly as you described, so I guess I'm good then.
Once the rain quits here, I'll warm my car up and give you some Info. I'm speed density, so my MAF sensor/IAT sensor does nothing. I've got a separate IAT sensor wired in, and it takes awhile to respond to actual temp differences.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Has anyone tried the FID (Fuel injector development) injectors on PRL? The pricing seems almost too good to be true and there's little to no reviews on them, but it's also being sold by PRL which I consider to be very trust worthy source.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So I just got the new setup into the car. However, right now I am having a very hard time getting the car started, warm or cold. The car started fine before, but after the new turbo and the large injectors, the car now takes 5-10 sec of cranking before basically struggling to come to life. Could this be a tuning issue since I'm in the very early stage of the retune or could it be something else? The car idles fine and drives fine. No miss fires logged, no abnormal AFR fluctuation.
 

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So I just got the new setup into the car. However, right now I am having a very hard time getting the car started, warm or cold. The car started fine before, but after the new turbo and the large injectors, the car now takes 5-10 sec of cranking before basically struggling to come to life. Could this be a tuning issue since I'm in the very early stage of the retune or could it be something else? The car idles fine and drives fine. No miss fires logged, no abnormal AFR fluctuation.
You are the accord with the gt30r right? You should have posted in your other thread since it has all the info on the setup.

I would bet this is a tune issue. If you switched from rdx injectors to 750s you have to have the tune adjusted to start the car properly. Believe its called starting fuel or Cranking fuel trim

Datalog the issue and send to your tuner maybe?


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Building off of what dpetro1 said; if you just swapped injectors and made no adjustments to your map then that certainly will cause you headaches.

The ECU needs to know their size and deadtimes before anything else.
 
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