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Interesting. Any concerns that will impede the flow and hurt the turbo seals?
I've always heard 90s are a no no on the return line.
Any pictures from the back side of the motor with the turbo mounted?

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I've heard this as well, but given most b.b. turbos have oil restrictors, I think most people get by without blowing oil through the seals. The same goes with routing it to the pan drain plug. I've read over and over it's not correct, however alot of people do it with no issues.

The oil restriction in my turbo is tiny compared to the drain hose.
 
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Discussion Starter #42
Interesting. Any concerns that will impede the flow and hurt the turbo seals?
I've always heard 90s are a no no on the return line.
Any pictures from the back side of the motor with the turbo mounted?

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I have never heard that, but here's a pic from the very first mockup.
492047


I've heard this as well, but given most b.b. turbos have oil restrictors, I think most people get by without blowing oil through the seals. The same goes with routing it to the pan drain plug. I've read over and over it's not correct, however alot of people do it with no issues.

The oil restriction in my turbo is tiny compared to the drain hose.
I think mine has a built in restrictor, but I also have an external restrictor too just in case. I have heard the same across a few different forums. I did ran this setup for over 10,000 miles on the TD04, which is a journal bearing turbo with a larger restrictor and had no problem.

The way that I see it, the fluid level in the returnline is the same. The only time it may be different is if the crankcase pressure is significantly greater than the pressure (air) in the returnline, or since it is on the back, an acceleration greater than a certain point (a point that is unlikely to be achieved by a FWD 300hp ish car even on the drag strip. I think most people get away with it because even if the above does happen, it is for an extremely short period of time each time.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Alright, I'm loosing my mind here.
One of the reasons I went big turbo was to help mitigate surging (or atleast what I thought was surging) that I was experiencing on the TD04. But it seems to still be happening. Car is currently capped at 7.5psi as surging happens past 8psi. There also seems to be very minor surging at WOT past about 5750rpm. The car feels fine even when this "surging" is occurring, no shuddering, no power loss, etc.
Forget trying to fix the issues, but can someone give me some pointers in terms of what to look for in the datalog to confirm that it is actually surging? Is MAF voltage fluctuation a sign of surging? Maybe MAP fluctuation too?
Also, both turbo seems to "surge" past 8psi with wildly different specifications. Coincidence?
 

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I guess I don't follow what you mean by "surge". Is the boost pressure fluctuating or something? Maybe something with you wg? Are you using any boost controller?

It can't be the turbo as the gt30r is capable of 400+whp

Also it could be the tune needs work. Maybe a fuel or timing issue? Definitely take a datalog and send to the tuner? I'm not familiar with ktuner so I don't know what parameters they have...


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I guess I don't follow what you mean by "surge". Is the boost pressure fluctuating or something? Maybe something with you wg? Are you using any boost controller?

It can't be the turbo as the gt30r is capable of 400+whp

Also it could be the tune needs work. Maybe a fuel or timing issue? Definitely take a datalog and send to the tuner? I'm not familiar with ktuner so I don't know what parameters they have...


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I think we need a little more clarification, I took it as compressor surge.
 
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Something else just came to mind...any chance there is a boost cut set on the tune? That could explain this happening at 8psi on both turbos.

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Discussion Starter #47
I think we need a little more clarification, I took it as compressor surge.
Yes, compressor surge. (or at least what I think is compressor surge)
It's a series of some what sharp chuffing sound.

Sounds kind of like this:

But more sharp and at a higher freq. I'll try to get my own video soon.

Something else just came to mind...any chance there is a boost cut set on the tune? That could explain this happening at 8psi on both turbos.

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Not that I know of. The boost is controlled solely through the spring of the wastegate.
 

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Compressor surge you've got, please let us know what you figure out. I only read it was just missmatched turbine/compressor issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Compressor surge you've got, please let us know what you figure out. I only read it was just missmatched turbine/compressor issues.
Will do. This is very confusing for me as to why this is happening. I always thought the TD04 had this issue because the smaller sizing and low A/R. But now I got what I think is the right turbo and is still having the same issue. Boost Advisor from Garrett tells me the GT3076R is okay, PRL uses the GT3076R in their turbo kit for the 9th gen Si, the only other turbo Accord from my generation also used a GT3076R, and no one seems to be having this issue on the K24Z platform except for me. :(
 

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I would start looking
Will do. This is very confusing for me as to why this is happening. I always thought the TD04 had this issue because the smaller sizing and low A/R. But now I got what I think is the right turbo and is still having the same issue. Boost Advisor from Garrett tells me the GT3076R is okay, PRL uses the GT3076R in their turbo kit for the 9th gen Si, the only other turbo Accord from my generation also used a GT3076R, and no one seems to be having this issue on the K24Z platform except for me. :(
It's not something I could wrap my head around when I first read about it. Now I'm reading about it again, and it may be making a little more sense to me.
Can you safely remove your stock exhaust, and see if that makes a difference? I realize there's probably a steering rack that may get cooked, just a thought. Maybe there's a clogged muffler, etc. The only reason I mention this, is your TD04 and 3076 both seem to have similar wastegate designs, and appears that exhaust isn't necessarily biased towards the waste-gate, especially if there's alot of back pressure.
My thinking is maybe that's running your turbo into the surge area of the compressor map, but I may be way way way off base.
 
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Discussion Starter #51
I would start looking

It's not something I could wrap my head around when I first read about it. Now I'm reading about it again, and it may be making a little more sense to me.
Can you safely remove your stock exhaust, and see if that makes a difference? I realize there's probably a steering rack that may get cooked, just a thought. Maybe there's a clogged muffler, etc. The only reason I mention this, is your TD04 and 3076 both seem to have similar wastegate designs, and appears that exhaust isn't necessarily biased towards the waste-gate, especially if there's alot of back pressure.
My thinking is maybe that's running your turbo into the surge area of the compressor map, but I may be way way way off base.
So I can't really run without the catback since it's sorta structural, but you think I can run metal sleeves around the thread that bolts the downpipe and the catback? That will put a decent open slit between the down pipe and the catback.
 

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So I can't really run without the catback since it's sorta structural, but you think I can run metal sleeves around the thread that bolts the downpipe and the catback? That will put a decent open slit between the down pipe and the catback.
I think that'd work fine. I'm sure you know, its probably going to shoot flames.
What is your downpipe diameter out if curiosity?
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I think that'd work fine. I'm sure you know, its probably going to shoot flames.
What is your downpipe diameter out if curiosity?
Down pipe is 3" all the way through. Catback is 3" to 2.25"
 

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I highly doubt it's the exhaust. Yoi would have to have a major restriction. Do you have a cat or any flex sections?

Have you checked all the boost settings in the tune?

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Discussion Starter #55
I highly doubt it's the exhaust. Yoi would have to have a major restriction. Do you have a cat or any flex sections?

Have you checked all the boost settings in the tune?

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No Cat, I do have a flex hose from Vibrant. It is the ones rated for a turbo application, it looked fine inside and out when I had to do the downpipe mod for the GT3076R.

Could you elaborate on the boost setting? The car is AFM tuned and the only thing controlling the boost level is the wastegate spring weight.
 

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Could you elaborate on the boost setting? The car is AFM tuned and the only thing controlling the boost level is the wastegate spring weight.
I just go back to some kind of boost cut. Or some other parameter that would interfere with the car getting into boost.

Or something in the tune that is not adjusted properly once you are hitting 8psi?

Again, I am not familiar at all with ktuner but there has to be something going on. Are you able to post a datalog?

No way two different turbos are having the same issue. And I don't think a 2.25" exhaust isn't enough restriction to be a problem.

Keep us posted.




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Discussion Starter #57
I just go back to some kind of boost cut. Or some other parameter that would interfere with the car getting into boost.

Or something in the tune that is not adjusted properly once you are hitting 8psi?

Again, I am not familiar at all with ktuner but there has to be something going on. Are you able to post a datalog?

No way two different turbos are having the same issue. And I don't think a 2.25" exhaust isn't enough restriction to be a problem.

Keep us posted.
It's possible, but I doubt it.
So I adjusted the BOV to it's softest setting tonight and I have not ran into minor surging at WOT past about 5750rpm since. So consider that solved for now. I dont think have a datalog of it surging past 8psi.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Just kidding. I found a section from a past datalog that includes the surging. Attached is a .csv file that only contains the 15sec where the surge occurs past 8psi.
 

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From what I'm understanding, your blow off valve adjustment may have introduced a leak that's bringing you back to the "right" of the surge line. This will work fine, for a speed density tune. It may work for a MAF if it's a metered leak. If you turn up boost eventually, let us know if you encounter this again. If you have tuning issues, keep this in mind as a possible issue.
I only say this, because during full throttle, your BOV doesn't do anything, and any adjustments shouldn't change full throttle characteristics.
 
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It's possible, but I doubt it.
So I adjusted the BOV to it's softest setting tonight and I have not ran into minor surging at WOT past about 5750rpm since. So consider that solved for now. I dont think have a datalog of it surging past 8psi.
What bov Do you have? I don't see how the bov would affect anything. It should be closed under boost.

Or are you saying the bov was fluttering when you released the throttle, so you softened it up?

I looked at the log and don't really see anything jumping out. Boost looks pretty solid at 8psi from 3800 until you let off at 4100?

Was this a wot pull? The tps only shows like 48%


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